No to AV - YES to PR
No to AV - YES to PR.Did you know that the No to AV - YES to PR campaign has a Facebook page - you can find it HERE.
Say YES to PR by voting NO to AV.
As the site states:
- Yes to Democracy in the form of real Proportional Representation for the House of Commons.
If you support this campaign please join and tell your friends and help us organise before it's too late and we are stuck with half-baked version of First Past the Past in new clothes forever.
Support this campaign - become a signatory.
Sign your name/group on the wall to be added to the list.
- Yes to Democracy, we want real Proportional Representation for the House of Commons.
VOTE NO in the Referendum.
Its also interesting to note that Manchester Respect have submitted this motion (which i agree with 100%) to this years Respect National Conference:
"Alternative Vote Referendum: Locking Out Radical Politics
- The Alternative Vote (AV) referendum is a trap set for the Liberal Democrats to give the party enough to bring it in to coalition. It is not a commitment to proportional representation and offers the least challenge to the political system.
- AV is part of a package that reduces the number of constituencies and MPs and evens out the number of voters in each. This is gerrymandering of the voting system. The equalization of constituencies will strengthen the tendency towards stabilizing the Tory and Liberal Democrat representation. The bigger constituencies will make it harder to break the stranglehold of the three major parties.
- It strengthens the push towards the political centre as the centre ground parties pick up the redistributed votes. AV will further lock out radical politics and prevent Labour forming a majority in the future. Respect would not be able to win Parliamentary seats and it would be very difficult for the Green Party as well. This package is a step backwards for the representation of the poorest in our society.
- Those against PR will argue that there is no mandate whatever the result of the referendum. Those in favour are being pushed into supporting electoral reforms that will lock out PR for a generation and lock out progressive representation with it. PR will not be on the agenda for a generation whatever the outcome of the referendum, which is the nature of the Tory trap.
- Respect needs to step away from the trap and campaign for NO to AV - Yes to PR".
posted by Neil Williams @ 7:48 PM
6 Comments:
So, logically, you expect those who adamantly oppose PR to vote for AV in the referendum? "Say NO to PR by voting YES to AV"? Really??
And do you seriously expect that a decisive vote in favour of FPTP rather than AV will open the door for another referendum proposing an even more fundamental change to the electoral system?
I really cant understand your resoning.
This article is saying that if you support PR then you cant vote for AV as it will be the end of PR for at least a generation.
Obviously the defeat of AV does not in itself give us a referendum on PR but it does keep the door open if part of that debate was due to support for PR and clearly stated by a progressive campaign during the AV referendum (and a counter to what you term a "decisive vote in favour of FPTP rather than AV" - the altenative is to let the AV referendun be dominated by the Right both for and agianst AV (and in many cases very hostile to PR).
As I a strong supporter of PR, I can understand your reasoning, but all you are going to do is damage the reform movement.
This is the first national referendum since 1975. If it fails, hell will freeze over before they give us another one. It will be taken as irrefutable evidence that the public are happy with FPTP and no change is necessary.
On the other hand, if it passes and we have a General Election under AV, all those first preference votes for parties other than the big three will underline the necessity for PR in General Elections.
Anyone who wants PR and/or electoral reform should be 100% behind the YES campaign.
Anthony you are so wrong on this. In fact its a Yes vote for AV that will end forever in our lifetime any chance for PR.
AV is not in any way progressive and I dont even see it as any better than FPTP. I see nothing, nothing at alll progressive about the 2nd prefernce votes of the last candidate possibly deciding who is elected and the 2nd preference votes of all others (the majority) not even being counted if the winning candidte gets 50% +1. If many case across the UK these 2nd preference votes (and thiers alone)will come from the BNP and UKIP who will decide the winning candidate - so much for progress!!
No lets have the courage the campaign for PR and not line up with Nick Clegg and his mates.
All I can say is that Take Back Parliament, Power 2010, the Electoral Reform Society, Open Democracy, Vote For a Change, Unlock Democracy, Democracy Matters and 38 Degrees all think that you are wrong. So do the Labour party, the Liberal Democrats, the Green party and UKIP.
As far as I can tell, that's every major group seeking electoral reform, and four of the top six parties. The only parties opposing AV are the Tories and the BNP.
As for the issue of second and third preference voters having a say who is elected as their MP, rather than simply leaving it up to those who vote for the big three... that strikes me as something entirely desirable from an electoral system.
If you don't think that it is better for an MP to represent the majority of the electorate in a constituency than a minority (as happens under FPTP), then I think that we have very different understandings of the goals of electoral reform. The ultimate aim is surely to improve representation? It's not PR, but it is a LOT better.
There are a wealth of reasons why AV is better than FPTP:
http://isupportav.co.uk/av-is-better/
The trap and the con, exactly as you describe, is reducing the number of seats. It is not the AV system. The reducation of seats will make it unfairly harder for you, cancelling out how AV will make it easier for you. But AV itself won't make it harder for you but easier, and if you oppose AV it will be even harder again for you.
There is no referendum on the reduction of seats. The AV referendum will not be in any way a vote on the reduction of seats.
Hence vote yes to AV, then push for AV Plus as you expose the effects of the reduction of seats.
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